Orlando shootings

[EricB]

Dear Sajih,
Yes, allied planes have killed innocent civilians in Syria and elsewhere. Yes, it is an atrocity and an act of evil. But they did not claim to be doing God's work. They did not yell "God is great" when they dropped those bombs. And I'm pretty sure they don't think they will be going to heaven to be rewarded with 72 virgins.

Yes, cops in America have a terrible track record of killing blacks and other minorities. Yes, it is an atrocity and an act of evil. But they did not claim to be doing God's work. They did not yell "God is great" when they killed those people. And I'm pretty sure they don't think they will be going to heaven to be rewarded with 72 virgins.

Yes, Timothy Mcveigh and Terry Nichols were terrorist that killed many people in the Oklahoma City Bombing. Yes, it was an atrocity and an act of evil. But they did not claim to be doing God's work. They did not yell "God is great" when they exploded the bombs. And I'm pretty sure they don't think they will be going to heaven to be rewarded with 72 virgins.

Yes, Andreas Behring Brievick was a terrorist responsible for the 2011 Norway attacks that killed 77 people. Yes, it was an atrocity and an act of evil. But he did not claim to be doing God's work. He did not yell "God is great" when he blew up and shot all those people. And I'm pretty sure he doesn't think he will be going to heaven to be rewarded with 72 virgins.

The Orlando Shooting and the French truck driver killings, which is what started this conversation here, were both committed by people with links to violent muslim religious groups. These groups use murder and other terror tactics in the name of God. They DO yell "God is great" as they commit their evil murderous acts. And their friends from the violent religious groups cheer and clap and shoot machine guns in the air when they see the news reports on the television.

Sajih, you seem to be upset that we are all feeling sorry only for the people killed by the Orlando Shooting and now this French truck driver killings. Just because we have not spoken out about other killings (like the ones that you mentioned), doesn't mean we don't care about them. Many of us only know what we see on the news and what our friends and family are talking about.

Many of us also understand that our governments (the USA and UK for example), are sometimes involved in illegal or unjust wars. It doesn't mean we agree with them. Also, there is much dis-information out there, that it's sometimes very hard to know what really happened unless you were there. For example, how do we know that a bomber plane had blown up a hospital instead of a known terrorist training camp? What if the training camp was deliberately set up near the hospital in the first place? What if the hospital was really a fake hospital to begin with? There are lies on both sides of a war. A war is fought not just with weapons, but also with propaganda. What better propaganda is there than saying babies and children in a hospital were deliberately bombed in order to garner international sympathy? I'm sure there have been babies and children killed during a bombing in Syria. But to say that they were deliberately targeted is hard to believe and even harder to prove. We simply just don't know who is telling the truth in such events.

What you don't seem to understand is the wording you are using to link these events to God's will. George is correct when he said you are excusing these murderous people for taking responsibility by implying that they are just a tool for God's will. Let's give God a little more credit please. When God wants to wipe out some people, look at his past examples such as Noah's flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, the plagues He unleashed, etc. These were clearly the wrath & power of God, and is no doubt "an act of God". Why would God use petty instruments such as evil organisations and insane people to carry out his will? If God were using these people for his will, no one will be able to link these events as God's wrath because there's nothing miraculous about them. You seem to be making this link, so please stop saying this because it disrespects the victims, and also makes us all look bad here as being part of your Church. God can do a lot better than to make some maniac run over people with a truck.

I would personally like to stick around here a bit longer, but it would mean that I also accept that these atrocities are linked to God's will. And I don't make that connection at all. So in this matter, I am not with you, but I am also not against you. In other words, we have 2 different viewpoints about the situation, but we can still remain good friends.

So please just keep away from linking God's will to these terrible tragedies that we know will keep coming in the future. Just condemn the tragedy and say how bad you feel for the victims and their families (like every other normal person feels), and just leave it at that.

Your Brother,
Eric